I
was invited by a friend to watch this webinar, and here are my notes
from the session.
At
the time of watching, I wasn’t sure whether the video would be
available afterwards, so I wrote detailed notes about what each of
the participants were saying. I have tried to make this easier to read by removing my short-hand, and I have added in various links etc that will add more information, but I apologise in advance if I have missed anything.
I have not added my thoughts and feelings to this - this is just the raw overview of the discussion.
[Edit: Here is my post with my own thoughts/reaction]
To
clarify – these are my notes/paraphrasing, not direct quotes.
“The
Cato Institute is a public policy research organization — a think
tank — dedicated to the principles of individual liberty, limited
government, free markets, and peace. Its scholars and analysts
conduct independent, nonpartisan research on a wide range of policy
issues.”
Looking
along libertarian
lines – people who are able to look after themselves should be able
to without government involvement as long as there’s nor force or
fraud involved.
There
is an assumption
that
children
are not able to self govern, so the question is who should make those
decisions – parents or state? The
phrase
“parents have the right...” is concerning because nobody has the
right to make decisions for others. However,
parents have a duty to make those decisions such that they are
enabling and equipping those children to become self governing
adults. The role of the government should be restrained. Government
is there to protect freedom, therefore the state should only get
involved if the children have had harm inflicted on them.
Obviously
physical abuse and neglect are examples, and legitimate concern.
Standard
judicial procedure: Suspicion, investigation and trial – should be
assumed innocent until proven guilty. May be reasonable to have
annual visit.
Government
is
a unique threat to educational freedom as they impose orthodoxy on
everyone which is antithetical to liberty. So what is the role of
the
government?
Governments
should only intervene if children don’t have the basic building
blocks (reading, writing and simple maths) however, other subjects
and topics are only matter of opinion, so government
should not be involved, especially when they say there are some
things that should not
be taught. There may be compromise as children are not equipped to
advocate for themselves. Ultimately, government
control is dangerous, but since children cannot advocate for
themselves, there needs to be some compromise.
John
Holt 1977 concerned about state involvement. 36 states had a variety
of implied or explicit home schooling legislation.
In
many
states, Homeschooling
is regulated like private schools, which means there is wide ranging
regulation.
In
the 1980s,
the
majority of
homeschoolers were
fundamentalist religionists/Christians
so there became a battle from the courts to states legislators.
Through legislation,
grass roots Homeschoolers
showed
their force to keep pressure on until they got what they wanted. By
1990s Homeschooling
was
much easier to do. Legislation
in states varies, ranging
from only
needing to
deregister
from school, to minimum qualifications upon leaving school, and to
imposing full curriculum.
Overall
Homeschooling
is mostly unregulated in the US; this has made it possible for
criminals to use homeschooling
to hide
abuse. There
are no
specific records, only anecdotes. The
Home
schooling and Invisible
Children
website has details of horrific cases- needs to balance these cases
whilst ensuring Homeschoolers
maintain their freedom.
Homeschoolers
are understandably upset and angry about Elizabeth Bartholet’s
article that came out early in 2020. Fundamental Question:
should the
government
intervene in family life if there is no evidence of wrong doing?
Should families be under close watch? Presumption of guilty.
Barthelot’s
arguments:
Ideological
- A very large proportion of Homeschooling
parents are purposely isolating their children
Academic
- Homeschooled
kids are 2-3 more likely to visit library and 1.5x more likely to
visit school or book store
If
the
government
can’t guarantee
standards for kids in school, how can they do the same for
Homeschoolers?
Welfare
– Homeschooling
parents are no more likely to abuse children, some say less likely.
Ignoring abuse by educators and peers in education institutions
1/10
children
in school will be sexually abused by educators in school
We
may not agree with people’s choice to educate their own children,
but should not allow government
force and state violence against children
Instead
of presumptive bans, we should be celebrating freedom.
Children
should be seen as having rights equal to adult rights. Children
don’t have power to protect themselves so it’s
important
the
government
be there as protector for children
and be able to intervene
to protect fundamental rights:
-protection
against abuse and neglect
-right
to education
Need
to think about the children’s right to positive interaction from
government/
Most
countries in the world have written into their constitutions
children’s rights
2
major concerns of current unregulated state, that there is no
meaningful
regulation of
-protection
against abuse and neglect
-right
to education
I
never said I was for a total ban and I don’t think a presumptive
ban isn’t what Kerry described.
As
a general matter, masses
of
Homeschooling
parents are doing a great job, and most don’t abuse, however my
concern is with a subset of those Homeschooled
children.
We
don’t have laws because all children are abused, but because a
subset are. Similarly, there needs to be regulation for Homeschooled
children. There are a couple of studies that show a worrisome
correlation between Homeschooling
and abuse. More generally Homeschoolers
“very often” raise their children up in significant isolation.
Isolation is a risk.
What
protects children? If we built in mandated reporters who come into
regular contact with children. Kids in state schools get this
minimum check, so Homeschooled
kids need it too. Before you’re allowed to Homeschool
there should be a check with CPS to see if family have a record or
check of abuse and neglect.
Important
there be contact beyond that that homeschooling
families aught to see people other than their families, preferably in
a public school. A once/year visit is not enough to protect
children.
There
needs to be minimum regulation to ensure children
have minimum
right to education, for employment, opportunities. There should be
some check to ensure they are able to teach. There needs to be
meaningful assessment by state on annual basis to check the children
are learning. Finally, education needs to include exposure to views
and values that are different to those of the parents. So
when they become adults they have meaningful opportunity to choose
different to their parents.
Q&As:
Q:
Do
we have reason to believe that having kids in public schools has a
greater net gain than if parents can educate how they want?
Do
we have reason to believe public schools are safer?
NM:
evidence to suggest state schools are not doing well producing good
citizens
EB:
Agree public schools have lots of problems. Often will be the case
Homeschoolers
will do better case of educating and protecting their kids. They
have the right
to do that. However, there
should be a burden on the parents to show their desire to educate
their kids, ability to teach their children, and children should go
to a public school for some courses, even if schools are failing,
because
it’s safer to see more people.
KM:
The issue is that government
schools are not safe for many children, and this is a highly
regulated standardised system of schooling, with high surveillance,
video cameras,
metal detectors etc. and there are still plenty of children who are
being abused at school . We cannot say that state schooling is
protecting Homeschooled
kids.
MG:
Soooo
many variables, basically there is not a lot of difference how
Homeschoolers
turn out compared to school kids turn out. There is not the data,
but looking at everything overall, there is not much difference. It
is important to not look at anecdotes. The outcomes of kids is much
more based on the environment they come from at home – marital
statues of parents, home wealth, parents interest in education etc.
EB:
I’m going to differ with Milton’s
conclusions, but I think we don’t know enough to think the outcomes
are similar, because we don’t have big enough studies. The
Homeschooled
kids who do well, yes they are comparable to state schools, but
doesn’t look at those that don’t do well. There is a subset that
we need to worry about in an unregulated home schooling setting.
Q:
What strategy do we have to help kids who are mistreated?
NM:I
think innocent until proven guilty, but abuse is real.
KM:
How to we help kids in both Homeschooling
situation and in government
school. There are child abuse laws in every state, and these should
be enforced. CPS needs to be reformed so they can find abuse cases.
Problem is that we are conflating
abuse and Homeschooling.
We should not be adding a layer of suspicion on a subset of people.
This is true
of abuse that happens in government
schools. I’m not convinced more regulation will improve things for
children.
MG:
I see myself as a historian, but will step out of my role.
Homeschooling
is being used as a mechanism to abuse children, which is what I think
some basic minimal contact that Neal
suggested should be instated.
EB:
As Milton said it’s obvious.
There are examples
of parents who have been reported for abuse who claim to be
Homeschooling.
There are some studies. In Connecticut,
look at every child withdrawn within a period of time; 36% were to
parents
who had reports
of abuse or neglect, so these children were at risk. Another
study from paediatricians
– small sample
size
of those who have experience horrific torture, 76% were Homeschooled
kids. Obviously
they kept at home knowing there won’t be witnesses and will get
away with it.
KM:
A large % of the small number cited by EB were already known to CPS,
therefore shows a clear problem with CPS. Again, there should be
issues with convicted parents, the courts should be putting
restrictions on those parents, not on all parents.
Q:
Founding fathers’ education was much less than standard schooling,
so why do you think Homeschooling
isn’t wide ranging
enough to produce
well thought out/rounded citizens as adults?
EB:
Homeschooling
has interesting origins, major strain in early years was John Holt’s
books, and made me seek out schools that enabled creative learning.
There is no research to say one way or another about whether
Homeschoolers
are capable citizens. Studies by Homeschoolers
only show the subset of successful Homeschooled
kids,
not the subset that I’m worried about. Absence of meaningful
research
means we can’t know the whole Homeschooled
population, and therefore can’t study them all. We only know about
the successful ones, that parents are willing to share about.
KM:
Homeschoolers
disentangle education from schooling and become immersed in the
people, places and things of their community. I disagree with EB
that many Homeschoolers
are isolated, especially in 2020 when Homeschoolers
are
economically and
ideologically
diverse and are immersed in their communities. Albert Chang
at University
of Arkansas
shows Homeschoolers
are more politically tolerant than students at state or public
schools.
MG:
One of the major themes of my book is that Homeschooling
is very different today to that of founding fathers. Modern
Homeschooling
is reaction against state schooling. Previously people Homeschooled
in order to open up options to their children, so was very common,
but getting less common in the 20th
Century,
and becoming more common from the 1970s. Whilst EB’s point that
research isn’t population wide is true, there are
some random sample surveys that have proven statistically to
represent the wider population. Homeschooling
is not going to make you more or less civic, it’s to do with the
parents.
Q:
NM:
I suggested one way to make sure no kids go through the cracks, there
should be a standardised test on read, writing, arithmetic,
but standard testing is
problematic as it
encourages
state-based curriculum. Is
there a way to test without forcing this curriculum?
KM:
whose standard? Parents often choose Homeschooling
because they are worried about state schooling, because they do not
like standardised testing. Much of the growth in Homeschooling
is from urban, secular parents who want a different education for
their children. Average
age for reading is about 8yos in the
homeschooling
population,
which is higher than in government
schools, but still the same outcome. Also, some parents of children
with SEN, so I’d worry about how standard testing would impact
those children. Whose standard?
MG:
Yes, I agree with KM. If the parent has academic competence, then
the parents should have as much freedom as possible. As long as the
parent has GED, that’s fine, but there shouldn't
be a fixed curriculum or standardised testing. Maybe a one time test
age 13, but there should be much freedom.
EB:
I disagree with both previous speakers. Should children have total
control? There should
be a balance. Parents have some control, but state should have a say
to ensure the children have a future and grow
up to have a positive influence in their future. It makes sense for
the state to say that by the child is 18 there is a minimum
knowledge
of writing, reading, maths, science etc. The tests are more
meaningful
for kids, than requiring credentials
for parents. There should be annual tests. Do you wan 100% control
for parents, or would kids be better off if there’s a balance
between state and parents control?
Q:
Should
people who go to public schools be mandated
to go to a religious school or other schooling? If we’re looking
at widening education, shouldn’t all students have
opportunities to new ideas?
MG:
I don’t have a say. I like the idea, but this is more something to
do on your own, rather than it being state mandated.
EB:
public schools should def teach in the school context diversity,
religion, non-discriminatory
attitudes etc. It doesn’t make sense for me to say these kids
should then go to a different school. These kids then go home, so
will be exposed to values from parents and community so I don’t
agree these kids are missing out on alternative vies.
NM:
If public schools must by law be non-religious, how to children then
get experience and exposure to a religion?
EB:
At home. Parents at home are free to bring their kids up to church
and religious classes if they want. Schools shouldn’t teach that.
KM:
I agree with Milton that we can’t mandate this and require exposure
to all different viewpoints. It’s peculiar that EB singles out
Homeschoolers
for this, but not for private schools. It seems to me that this is
an important
issue as MG says Private education is as unregulated as
Homeschooling.
Q:
If Homeschoolers
should have irregular
drop ins, why are families trusted in the summer or before the child
is school age?
KM:
This discussion about regular home visits of government
authorities
with no evidence, has received the most criticism from the article.
EB:
I definitely
have fears for kids in the 0-5 age range that they won’t be seen.
In Europe home visitation is considered the normal. Do I think
there should be more such programs? Absolutely. Going to school is a
huge protection for children from abuse and neglect.
MG:
Part of what is at stake is that the history of Homeschooling
is the adversarial relationship between Homeschoolers
and the government.
We need to move beyond that and realise we are the gov. What about
having 2 people ‘named people’ being your eyes and submitting
that they’ve been seen as part of your Homeschooling
paperwork?
Q:
If state has been shown to not provide a good education, why should
Homeschooling
parents hand their children to the state?
MG:
I won’t grant the premise of the question – research
shows public
schools do better than many private schools.
NM:
That study is debatable, as is all research.
KM:
That’ right. My recommendation
is to keep this at the legislative/state
level, rather than moving to federal courts. This is a local issue
and should be decided at the state level.
EB:
I agree with Milton
that state schools do a good job. I would also say parents haven’t
“proved” they’re doing a good job all the time – we know some
parents don’t, some can’t be trusted not to abuse,
neglect or exploit their children. It’s a balance. What HSLDA is
demanding is parent power. They want parents to have total right
over their children. Neither parents nor state are perfect. There
needs to be a balance. The state needs to have the right to exert
the rights of the children.
NM:
Really interesting discussion. Sorry we couldn’t get to all
questions. I hope we covered most of the topics. Thanks to the
panellists. Everyone here wants to get to what is best for the
children and for the society.
