Notes
from the meeting with Department for Education (DfE) regarding
Children Not In School Consultation, in Coventry 10th June
2019
Please
note: These are MY notes, they are my summaries,
‘take-aways’, understanding, paraphrasing and the general gist of
the points made. Though it is in transcript-format, these are notes
and are NOT quotes, nor everything that was mentioned.
A
summary of the points covered is included at the end.
Attendees:
S
– Stephen Bishop, DfE representative hosting the meeting. Mainly
works with Independent schools.
A
– HEr, against registration
B – HEr, against registration
C
– HEr, against registration
D
– HE child, against registration
E
– HEr, against registration
F
– HEr, against registration
G
– HEr, against registration
H
– For registration: Exwife took son out of school without informing
him; did not educate child, and LA claimed to have no power to do
anything (child now older). He wants to stop children falling
through the net and thinks registration is a good thing.
Notes:
S
– Their aim: to hear from HErs what is problematic with the
proposals, not whether we’re for/against them.
In
Autumn, the government will be publishing the response document to
the consultation.
C
– How have you tried to engage children?
S
– None. No effort to engage children.
F
– In
the Department's response to No4 of UNHCR statement it stated that
you wanted to engage and involve children, before suggesting that
many HE parents would oppose you doing so.
Northern
Ireland have produced a booklet for children as part of their current
consultation.
[Added Note Afterwards: We'd
assumed Easy Read meant it was for children - but HedNI's take on
this actually says:
"A note on
the Easy Read Guidelines: "These are wholly inadequate. It is
very important that people with language
or literacy issues are able to fully understand the process which
they will go through if there are concerns about the education which
is being provided. We do not believe that the Easy Read Guidelines
will provide that clarity, or empower families to insist on fair and
legal treatment."]
C
– Wales consultation produced a booklet and meetings specifically
for children.
Teens
etc are currently focussed on exams, GCSEs, preparing for college,
returning to school etc. This is the second year in a row that there
has been a consultation at this time of year, which is not
considerate to the needs of children.
F
– Similarly,
it is difficult for parents at this time of year with national exams,
so is asking a lot. Last year’s consultation was probably not
compliant to Cabinet Office guidance.
S
– In summary, we haven’t engaged children, it is bad timing for
children and bad timing for parents. [Note – he repeated what we
told him, as he wrote it down.]
F
– In
section 2.5, my concern is DfE only can guarantee promise kept that
register is not a licence to HE so how are they going to make sure
that is the case. Many HErs scared of scope creep. Secondary
legislation doesn’t get treated with the same fine tooth comb, so
the department has to guarantee that it doesn’t become a licensing
scheme in the future. It should be renamed from “registration” to
“notification”.
In
Isle of Man, they came to conclusion that a notification scheme
adheres better to human rights than registration.
Comparison
to cars on road vs on private land; and TV for BBC channels vs other
online channels
C
– Parents are demoralised, it looks like a done deal, full of
emotive and destructive language, thinking “what’s the point?”
bothering to complete consultation. The government aren’t
listening, and it feels like an attack.
B
– What is the aim of the consultation?
To
prevent radicalisation? Illegal schools? abuse/neglect? How will a
register achieve these aims?
H
– Exwife claiming to HE, against his will. She is not providing an
education and LA agree, but have no power. He’s here to protect
children and parents in his situation.
B
– There already are powers.
H
– checks should be more stringent.
G
– There’s a conflict of interest between LAs and parents if LAs
are monitoring parents.
Analogy:
Sainsbury’s monitoring local grocery shops.
A
– Except Sainsbury’s have experience and are qualified to judge,
but LAs don’t have qualifications in education or pedagogy or child
development.
C
– Many LAs have part time workers, not focussed on HE, spend more
time doing truancy, EWO etc.
B
– Inconsistent across the country. Conducted a survey across the
country and 52% of LAs are “neutral or worse”. Eg they doorstep,
or don’t give enough notification. Lots of bad practice across the
country.
There
needs to be mutual trust and respect between LAs and HErs.
E
– New
guidelines produced in Ireland, working with HErs and HEDNI. There
was more respect, more positive consultation and more understanding
of issues.
F
– DfE needs to know HErs better.
G
– There should be a section in the DfE or a quasi-government group
made up of people trained in HE or previous HErs.
An
example of bad practice: first letter to new HErs contains the code
SAO1, indicating that the LA regard it as the first step in issuing
SAO.
C
– Need to find common ground. We care very much about education;
we spend a lot of time, money and mental load regarding the education
of our children.
B
– Need to get LAs working in partnership with HErs.
Currently
there is discrimination due to name, religion, skin colour etc.
F
– The relationship between LAs and parents was bad in the 90s and
is getting worse.
B
– LAs have no support to offer HErs. What incentive is there for
HErs to engage?
S
– Go through first proposal – Duty of LA to maintain register.
C
– What is the purpose of the register? All kids that were in
school are already known as schools must inform the LA when a child
is deregistered.
The
only new people the register will catch are kids who have never been
to school, eg philosophical HErs who typically have planned and
thought about HE the most.
DfE
wants to hunt us down via Gps, dentists etc through datasharing.
H
– how can you guarantee that children won’t be missed?
C
– Every case ending in SCR, the child was already on a register.
Instead,
you want to snoop on me, breeching my privacy, to find out about my
children.
F
– There
was one case came to light last year in Wales where a child was
hidden and abused (not Dylan Seabridge). The father was in a second
relationship and appeared to manipulate/control the girl's mother.
Such people are unlikely to register. During the investigation, an
older daughter, by his first wife said he had also abused her. At the
time she had been at school.
Back
to LAs, what happens when staff changes? If there’s a bad
relationship between LAs and HErs, then a register won’t solve
anything.
G
– Parents could stop going to dentists and doctors.
B
– Some LAs are outright lying; they breech data protection; they
refer to SS and threaten to take people to court. LA practices should
be consistent across the country and the people need to be trained.
A
– Who can LAs be reported to?
There
is bad practice locally, eg a letter sent to an HEr at their old
address, but they were doorstepped at new address. If the LA had the
new address, why couldn’t the letter be sent there?
G
– Will you invite examples of good/bad LA practice and letters?
S
– Yes, copies of letters can be emailed in, but they are not in the
scope of this consultation.
This
is about “registration and support” only, not monitoring
S - Move
on to discussion about Settings
C
– Who is maintaining the register? HErs go to lots of places and
setting for education. One person reported they go to over 15
different settings each week. It will be lots of work to maintain
and keep up to date; unmanageable, onerous and annoying.
S
– Is a museum trip an educational setting?
HErs
– Yes
S
– We need to define a “setting”
D
– I don’t like what you’re saying in the consultation
C
– D is working hard to complete the online consultation.
A
general point – there is a negative impact of the consultation and
media campaign on HE kids. The kids hear, read, watch etc others’
opinions.
G
– One reason why number of HErs has increased is because of
off-rolling. Need to look at schools and Ofsted, rather than HErs
C
– Children are interrogated at the check-out or by a person in the
street. It can impact the child so they may not want to leave home.
G
– There should be a separate consultation just for children.
F
– I have a big concern regarding data protection issues. The
information needs to be as little as possible, and should not be
shared. The DfE should do a proforma format.
S
– Now discuss the Parent’s Perspective.
F
– Section 3.4 says an SAO will be issued if child not registered.
If it is a welfare concern, then the LA should start care
proceedings. LAs don’t understand the difference between education
and welfare concerns. In both Khyra I and Dylan S cases, they were
both already known to SS. It was welfare concerns, not education
concerns.
H
– In my case, there is no sharing of info. The EHEO didn’t know
about SS involvement until I intervened. SS are overstretched and
underfunded, so unless they reach a threshold of ‘badness’ then
nothing gets done.
G
– In Glos, SS raised welfare concerns to retaliate against parents
who made complaints. There is an assumption that you can trust
bureaucrats not to abuse their powers, but that’s not true.
C
– Education and Welfare are separate, but the DfE do conflate them
in the guidance, so it is not surprising LAs get confused.
I
gain nothing by registering, only inviting arbitrary interference.
If
there’s a sanction for non-registration, once the LA becomes aware
of a child, then the LA already has the info about that child!
S
– Another logical fallacy?
C
– Yes. Sanctions gain nothing, and being on a register is
punishment enough.
H
– Surely it’s there to protect children?
F
– Unless it is spelled out to LAs that this is registration, not
monitoring, we’re in trouble. LAs are watching their own backs, so
veer on monitoring.
C
– It will impact children. Those who HE will become defensive and
suspicious. Those who don’t actually HE won’t care.
LAs
should always start with informal enquiries. Some LAs will assume a
register is a green light to go straight to s437/SAO.
H
– Children can still fall through the net
L
– How will a register make any difference?
H
– It won’t. My LA says it can’t do anything because it hasn’t
met the threshold, but they agree the education is not suitable, and
they have no powers.
S
– Can’t believe an LA says that. The law hasn’t changed and
should be sufficient to intervene.
Move
onto discussion about settings.
We
need to define settings.
B
– Who are you targetting?
S
– The Evangelical Alliance has listed their concerns on their
website.
B
– There definitely needs to be clarification. There are many types
of settings: local groups eg for 2 hrs/wke; tutor groups set up for
specific subjects, sports groups etc
A
– Lots of groups may close because they are run by HEing parents,
and they don’t want to maintain a register.
C
– Group organisers are terrified of Ofsted, having to become a data
controller, having to register with ICO, etc. It will cause HE as we
know it to collapse.
G
– If an educational setting I take my son to is poor, I will fail
as a parent due to the existing law.
B
– Encourage schools to flexi-school for specific subjects eg maths
or science, and everyone will be happy.
C
– Many things can be resolved by talking if there is mutual respect
and communication.
Why
would a parent pay if there’s an educational concern somewhere?
Don’t
sanction settings for not keeping a register. How do you stop a
setting from saying “no children during school hours”?
F
– If a museum runs a “school session” for HErs, does this need
to be registered and reported?
S
– No, this is not the intention of this. “Setting” needs to be
defined.
C
– What if LAs think everything is a setting? They will use their
own opinions and can define terms differently.
G
– Example of Ofsted person not caring about a safeguarding concern
at a school, but was more concerned about a child who was recently
removed from school, as school was the best place (ie ignoring
concerns).
By
causing settings to register, you only catch parents who facilitate a
wide education, rather than those who keep children at home.
E
– HE is relational and networking is important.
F
– Registering
only HErs is discriminatory.
This
section is a response to rhetoric, whipped up by people who have an
agenda against Jewish yeshivas and Muslim unregistered schools ande
have involved EHE in their campaigns.
Legislation
about illegal schools need to be separate to legislation about HE.
Don’t conflate them.
A
– Made a point about 18hours dancing/wk (for illustration, ignoring
that it is after school hours). My girls would have to be put on a
register, but not their schooled friends.
C
– You are giving illegal schools a loophole, as they can move their
hours to “after school” so they won’t need to register.
S
– Move on to duty of LAs to provide support
B
– Hampshire is a good example as they fund exams – Faregos
C
– Mutual trust so HErs can be known to the LA, without being known.
G
– Support needs to be more than just exams. Eg resources if
something is a genuine need, ed textbooks, tutoring, internet…
S
– a personal budget?
E
– But what is the catch? Any offer of support needs to be optional.
C
– It needs to be optional.
It
comes across that LAs are nice because they want to trap you. Need
to move to a situation where LAs are nice because they want to be
helpful.
LAs
need training, so they are not coercive.
DfE
needs to get LAs to work with HErs and have a liaison department
G
– Building trust is gradual
C
– There needs to be an ombudsman/adjudicator, so parents can report
an LA that oversteps their remit.
B
– There needs to be a complaints procedure.
F
– People
complain they don't know about the outcomes for EHE children, but if
DfE pays for exams, then they could collect information about the
results.
B
– Anne Longfield quoted wrong numbers when she talked about exams
and the number of children taking GCSEs. At one centre alone, there
was more HErs taking exams than she quoted for the whole country.
F
– The
Family Test, UNHCR statement and Equalities Log are poorly written.
There is no discussion about the benefits of HE children outside of a
school setting. The Equalities Log is prejudiced against some HErs.
S
– Run out of time
F
– How full are the other meetings?
S
– No numbers to hand, but no session exceeds 20 people.
Summary
of points made:
Consultation
bad practice
Lack
of engagement with children, and coinciding with exam season
Full
of emotive/destructive language
Reads
as if a “done deal” so puts HErs off responding
DfE
needs to guarantee the register doesn’t become a licence to HE
DfE
needs to emphasise it’s registration not monitoring
Conflict
of interest between LAs and parents if LAs are monitoring parents
LAs
inconsistent across the country
Some
good examples
collaborating
with HErs
Mutual
trust
Exam
support/funding
Some
have very bad practice
LAs
need to work with HErs
LAs
need training about HE from DfE
What
is purpose of register? What will it achieve? What do HErs gain from
it?
Huge
Data Protection/Data sharing/Privacy concerns
Need
for Ombudsman/Adjudicator that LAs can be reported to
Needs
to be a complaints procedure
Need
to define an educational “setting”
No
sanctions for not registering
Registering
will negatively impact children and groups
DfE
should encourage schools to flexi-school
Registering
only HErs is discriminatory
Support
offered – a person budget,
Family
Test, UNHCR Statement and Equalities Log are poorly written
